<International Circulation>: As ablation is a now a more prominent therapy in the field of AF， do you think the indications for radio-frequency ablation will be further expanded as more data becomes available?
　　《国际循环》: 现在消融在治疗房颤领域成为一个更突出的治疗方法。随着拥有越来越多的可用数据，你认为导管射频消融适用的范围会进一步扩大吗?
　　Prof Vardas: About 15 years after the implementation of the first radio-frequency ablation， we now have a much clearer understanding of its efficacy. Of course， we have guidelines. In the ESC and American guidelines， radio-frequency ablation， or more generally AF ablation， is not a first choice. It is suggested as a good choice for treatment for those patients who are in paroxysmal AF， symptomatic， and not properly and effectively treated with a pharmaceutical therapy. The message here is clear. You could use ablation for paroxysmal， symptomatic patients without an effective respond to pharmaceutical treatment. For the future， this technique will probably be upgraded to a first choice treatment if we recognize some more secrets in the pathophysiology of AF. At the moment， it seems to maintain its position as a good treatment and an alternative treatment for symptomatic AF patients. As it is indicated in our guidelines， but also in the same in the American guidelines， this technique should be in experienced centers by well-trained doctors. It is something that is clearly stated in the guidelines.
　　Vardas教授: 在射频消融技术第一次实施大约15年后的今天，我们对他功效已经有了更深的了解。当然，我们有相关的指南。根据ESC和美国指南，射频消融，或者更普遍的房颤消融，不是治疗的第一选择。对于药物治疗无效，有明显症状阵发性房颤患者，射频消融是一个不错的选择。表达的信息是很明确的。在药物无效时，你可以用导管消融治疗阵发性，有明显症状的病人。在未来， 如果我们认识到一些房颤的病理生理学上更深层次的秘密，这种技术可能会升级为治疗心颤的首选。目前，它好像只能维持在作为一个好的治疗和选择性治疗症状性房颤病人的方法的位置上。就像在我们的指南中指出的，并且同样在美国的指南中表明的，这种技术应该由领先的实验中心的专家团队和经验丰富的术者完成。这些在指南中是明确指出的。
　　<International Circulation>: Is that also a rate-limited step towards the expansion of ablation as a treatment for AF?
　　《国际循环》:是否也有一些因素限制了消融技术进一步成为治疗房颤的主要方法?
　　Prof Vardas: For sure we need very well trained persons to perform this procedure. We need centers that are performing more than 200 cases a year. I have the feeling that if this technique is approved in selected cases， with more-or-less normal heart structure， and paroxysmal AF， younger that 65 or 70 years old， this technique is quite effective， especially in those patients who have do this procedure down twice. With one procedure， the five year results are not extremely good， about 50% success. But， in patients treated twice with radio-frequency ablation， the five year results are much better， with a successful sinus rhythm of around 75%.
　　Vardas教授: 我们当然需要受过良好的培训人员来执行该程序。我们需要一年可以进行200多例手术的医疗研究中心。我认为，如果这种技术在特定的情况下进行应用，比如患者的心脏结构基本正常，是阵发性房颤，年龄低于65-70岁，这种技术是很有效的，尤其对于那些进行了两次手术的患者。在五年中接受一次手术的患者，其手术效果不是非常好，大约有50%的成功率。但是， 在五年中接受两次射频消融治疗手术的患者结果要好得多， 75%左右的患者可以成功的恢复窦性心律。